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Compet-N demos

Wed, 01 Feb 2006 01:43:16

Sotho Tal Ker

Is it possible to play original demos in Vavoom? It it is possible, how is it done, then? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Edit: 3 more questions: Does Vavoom need blockmap and reject map information for levels? What is the maximum size of the blockmap, if required? Is there a reject map builder for v5 nodes, if reject map is needed?
Wed, 01 Feb 2006 18:42:57

Janis Legzdinsh

No, it can't play original demos. Blockmap an reject is needed. Blockmap limit is 64k (like original exe). Reject is part of normal nodes, so any builder should work. BTW glVIS can build reject and is probably the most exact one.
Wed, 01 Feb 2006 23:22:29

Sotho Tal Ker

I hope someday you can increase the size of the blockmap <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I think it would be needed by some BIG levels.. ^^ Edit: [It would also make Vavoom more Boom-compliant, since Boom supports blockmaps up to 128k.] Also original demo support would be nice, since i want to enjoy some 100% runs with vavoom, but i don't know if it would be possible to do (i guess it depends on how much has been changed between original ans vavoom engine). Also would it be possible to use GL nodes for reject map building or are there some fundamental differences between normal and GL nodes? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> And last: if you have some time, i would like to do some testing with a few debug versions of glvis, since it still seems to hang up on some BIG levels (mitnal.wad in this case, stops at 41280) Maybe i should post some of this in "Feature requests", too? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:04:27

Janis Legzdinsh

I hope someday you can increase the size of the blockmap <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I think it would be needed by some BIG levels.. ^^
Like John Carmack said in the readme file, the whole thing that uses blockmap can be changed to use BSP tree. Getting rid of the blockmap would be really cool.
Also original demo support would be nice, since i want to enjoy some 100% runs with vavoom, but i don't know if it would be possible to do (i guess it depends on how much has been changed between original ans vavoom engine).
Sorry, that's totaly impossible
Also would it be possible to use GL nodes for reject map building or are there some fundamental differences between normal and GL nodes? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
It depends on node builder. glVIS uses GL nodes to build VIS data and generating reject from VIS data is trivial.
And last: if you have some time, i would like to do some testing with a few debug versions of glvis, since it still seems to hang up on some BIG levels (mitnal.wad in this case, stops at 41280)
If you really want to debug it yourself - the source code is available.
Fri, 03 Feb 2006 00:19:11

Sotho Tal Ker

[quote="Janis Legzdinsh":nbc4ph5q]
Also original demo support would be nice, since i want to enjoy some 100% runs with vavoom, but i don't know if it would be possible to do (i guess it depends on how much has been changed between original ans vavoom engine).
Sorry, that's totaly impossible why?
Fri, 03 Feb 2006 01:53:17

Deathlike2

[quote="Sotho Tal Ker":2dhivd0d][quote="Janis Legzdinsh":2dhivd0d]
Also original demo support would be nice, since i want to enjoy some 100% runs with vavoom, but i don't know if it would be possible to do (i guess it depends on how much has been changed between original ans vavoom engine).
Sorry, that's totaly impossible why? It most likely has something to do with the stuff implemented in any source port that would break demo support in so many ways. There are very few ports that specifically deal with this. PrBoom comes to mind. However PrBoom is for Doom only... Take a look at this, and you'll see examples of why it is rather difficult to maintain demo compatibility: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://prboom.sourceforge.net/mbf-bugs.html">http://prboom.sourceforge.net/mbf-bugs.html</a><!-- m --> It comes down to bug fixes... you have to "reproduce a bug" just for a demo... Also, the source code for Strife had been lost. Unless someone can figure out how to play Strife demos, it won't happen anytime soon. (Strife is different from Doom in so many ways, even though it is based on the same engine, you have to account for many different things including an expanded key list, the different weapons, and the different map stuff like floors that cause instant death.) It would be hell of a feat to figure out the demo format... Notice that many current games that have the ability to generate a demo say that demo compatibility doesn't work with different version of the same game... this is because even the smallest important fix or change will drastically break the demo.. unless you spend hours trying to add compatibility to older demos (which will waste time that could have been spent better and increase code bloat). I hope that answers your question.
Fri, 03 Feb 2006 19:14:00

Janis Legzdinsh

In Doom engine deomos are done by recording network commands with player's input. Playback then plays game byt instead of reading keyboard/mouse it reads recorded data. It relies on game to behave exactly as whe recorded. Vavoom has completely new network system from Quake.

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